POP GOES THE SCIENTIST

"Sweetheart, I'm a scientist!"

"That's hot but I think I'll pass."

This weekend, as we've done every Easter for a few years, we worked a booth at the All About Pets show at the International Centre out by the airport.  An estimated 40,000 people visit the show although this year it wasn't as busy as in previous years.  People always rush over to our booth to sign petitions and talk about the ban. We got a couple of thousand signatures this year and only 8 people refused to sign. That's about right, ratio-wise, in terms of support.

Presenting at the show again this year was Stanley Coren, the author of  The Intelligence of Dogs and other pop-science books about our canine friends.

I was very anxious to speak with him, since I'd come across a news report the previous week in which he was quoted:

Stanley Coren, the Vancouver author of over a dozen books on dogs and their behaviour, is sharing some statistics compiled by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention.

“This is quite astonishing. Although pit bulls make up only a half per cent of the total number of dogs in the US, they are responsible for 43 per cent of fatal dog bites,” he points out.

“That says something about the wiring of the dog.”

I wanted to find out what his sources were for the population and the percentage of dog bite-related fatalities (DBRFs) he attributes to "pit bulls".  Luckily for me, he stopped right near our booth to talk to somebody about their dog so I was able to sneak up on him and pounce.

He said he got his DBRF number from 'available data' because in the US there is a requirement for bite reporting only in cases of fatalities.  It's all in some database, apparently but he couldn't remember how to access it.

He said his "pit bull" population estimate, .5% (yes, one-half of one percent), was obtained via UKC and AKC registrations for  American Pit Bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers and Staffordshire Bull terriers.  I asked why he didn't include ADBA.  He didn't know about them.

I told him his DBRF data came from news reports, as stated by CDC, which is his source.  He disputed this and said I had no understanding of data. I told him it's right in the journal articles themselves, that there is no 'database' of DBRFs, that they scanned news reports, that there were missing death certificates and other weaknesses.  He became rather argumentative  at that point.

I said that in a population of 78 million dogs, 30 fatalities a year, while a horrific for the people involved,  are not statistically significant enough to predict any kind of trend.  He insisted there are 12 fatalities a year, not 30 on average.  I then realized he was talking about 5 fatalities attributable to "pit bulls" on average, per year.

I told him I think there are probably at least 5 million dogs that could be construed as "pit bulls" in the US.  He was sputtering by now and said that would mean 1:10 dogs are "pit bulls".  I said yes, that would probably be about right but actually it would be roughly 1:16.  I asked him if he includes mutts in his "statistics" he said no, just those three breeds.  I asked him who would be able to determine the purebred status of a dog in the US involved in an attack, since there is no requirement for identification. He didn't have an answer for that.  He didn't respond to my point about how most "breed" attributions are guesses or hearsay.

I didn't bother getting into how he determined how many were alive or  how he must be the only person who doesn't count mutts because they are in every piece of legislation, etc because by then he was kind of yelling that he was a scientist, repeatedly.

I had reminded him about our email conversation from 2006, when I had found his claim about 2000 psi pressure in a bound book after reading it in several news reports. After trying to throw me off-track and failing, he finally had to admit he couldn't find a reference and thought he might have overheard it. I have spared him the publication of our email exchange because I actually feel kind of sorry for him, but here is where he finally admits I've got him by the nuts over the 2000 psi:

 

I really can't be more specific. I apparently simply noted the
 essence of the findings to use as an aside in a talk I was
 giving. I always felt that  I could recover the original
 reference if I needed it, although you have proven  that 
this is not necessarily so. This has happened several times
 in the past,  where a bit of interesting data was briefly 
noted by me and then my contact with  it disappeared in the
 dimming memory of an aging psychologist. One would think
 that I would have learned to be more obsessive by now but
 being only 9 months from  retirement probably means that 
I have lost the window of opportunity to change my habits.

 

He told me on Saturday that he isn't responsible for what media write about him.  I said he's responsible for what he tells them - was he now accusing them of making it up?  "They can't print what you don't tell them and when you have an audience you should be careful about what you say."

He started yammering about his friends who have done studies recently but couldn't remember their names, which university they are from or what the titles of their papers are.  He thought they had a couple of papers in the Journal of Public Health. I said I'd look for them.  He mentioned a lurid paper from Detroit - one we have all seen that was written by an ER doctor. I said that "pit bulls" are very popular in Detroit, so it makes sense there will be more bites by that type.  He said they aren't popular there at all.

I asked him why he doesn't talk about Canada.  He said there aren't enough data.  I asked him how many people have been killed by "pit bull" types, ever, in this country.  He didn't know.  I asked him how many had been killed by "sled dog" types.  He didn't know.  He kept saying there are not enough data in Canada.

He then beetled off down the hall at top speed.

So that's pretty much what Stanley Coren is about. He's not interested in accuracy, he's not interested in science, he accused me of being closed-minded about "pit bulls" and incapable of understanding data.

Somebody's neurons are misfiring, but I don't think it's "pit bulls".

Postscript:

Later that day somebody visited our booth and said "Stanley Coren said that "pit bulls" used to be called the nanny dogs".  I said "That's not true.  Dr Coren says a lot of things that aren't supported."  She said "But it's good, right?".  "If it's not true, how can it possibly be good?"

 

Rupert considers marking Stanley's leg but is too polite

Note belt and suspenders!

 

Comments

[Bryan]

Too bad your dog didnt ite his ankles.

[Lynda Crawford]

Lift the leg, Rupert, lift the leg!!!

[Dianne Singer]

How many dogs has this man actually trained? Very, very few, I'd guess, if any at all. His books are nonsense.

[Brindlestick]

Hilarious and sad all at the same time! Stanley Coren needs to shut his clap trap. The media calls him often and the damage he is doing by feeding the media false statements is unforgivable. For someone who makes his living from dogs he sure is doing them a dis-service by opening his pie hole!

Stanley either needs to brush up on his "data" or shut the hell up!

The "nanny dog" comment cracked me up. Thanks for that Stanley, I sure needed a chuckle to calm my anger toward you.

[Brindlestick]

Oh by the way, his topic for speaking at the show was "The Invisible Leash". I think he must have injected the "nanny dog" statement in after being tuned in.

He couldn't even get that right!

[Fran C]

I bet very few "challenge" his "knowledge". ROFL

It's hard for some of these "professionals" when they actually run into people that KNOW their stuff. In this case though, I still can't bring myself to feel sorry for him. :-)

[catherine]

I do believe they were actually referred to as "nanny dogs" due to them being so great with children. It's clear from this article which I tend to believe that he is a complete idiot. Sounds to me like he doesn't like the breed for his own personal reasons and is on a mission to sway people to his point of view thru lying and a smear campaign.

[EmilyS]

oy.
really, just
oy.

the stoopid.. it burns......

[Greta]

"Pit bulls" were never referred to as nanny dogs. Staffordshire Bull Terriers were once referred to as nanny dogs, very specifically.

[Zoe]

He also apparently also doesn't know about the AADR, BFKC, SDR, APBA and we might as well throw in the APBR (although a bunk registry) and the ABKC as well as those dogs would be classed as pit bulls by the general public. Shut his pie hole is about it.....

[Zoe]

Ooops! That's alot of "also"'s! Typing from my phone here! lol

[EmilyS]

to clarify Greta's comment about "nanny dog"... This term has only shown up in reference to the APBT in the last few years, and no one I've challenged can provide ANY earlier source. It's bogus, anyway... "nanny" was never a common term in the USA anyway until maybe the 1970's... and certainly not by the people who mostly owned pit bulls, who were working class, based on the photos we see.

I asked a list full of English SBT fanciers where the term came from.. no one really knew. The best anyone could come up with is a vague memory that some breeder once used it in an advertisement. It is true, though, that the APBT, even in its early years was touted as an allaround family dog good with children.. I've seen ads to that effect.

But I completely agree with "Caveat" that repeating positive nonsense is not really any better than spewing garbage...

[Kim]

Perhaps he should have talked to Victoria Stilwell who was in the booth directly behind him. In her late afternoon talk she made it quite clear that Breed Bans are not the answer and that it's irresponsible owners of ANY Breed that are the problem.

[Sandra F.]

Selma, you’re a bit of a bully! Kidding! I love it! Coren is an idiot to say the least. He has been flying through life by the seat of his pants and the BS in them for years. I have been loving the APBT breed for over 40 years. Longer than most in Ontari-scario have even known the breed. I ran into Coren more years ago than I would like to admit. At that time he was spouting his so called intellectual banter about the PSI of various breeds including that of my highly trained GSD. How dogs have better hearing and smell than humans...etc. Duh, yep I think we got that figured out Stanley. Come to think of it, he had the same outfit on then! His books are garbage and most of his knowlege comes from other sources not hands on work, you are right about that Dianne! It is hard to feel sorry for someone that has made a living all these years off of the animals he spends so much time bad mouthing. He is not a fan of most larger breeds, likely because he is afraid of them. Sadly, there are many more out there like him. Too bad there isn't a ban on morons like Coren...

[H. Houlahan]

Coren is a "scientist" and I am a Nubian Princess.

Also, border collies SMART, sighthounds STOOPID because SCIENCE. I dismissed anything this blowhard had to say years ago when I read that claptrap. This turns out to have been the right decision.

Naturally, if the number of "pitbulls" is to be determined based on AKC and UKC registration numbers, then the only dogs that that can be classed as "pitbulls" -- whether the dog has won an obedience championship, rescued kittens from a burning building, or eaten babies -- are dogs whose registration papers can be presented.

Which, Imma gonna guess (SCIENCE!), is exactly 0% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks.

OTOH, walk through a neighborhood where there has been a fatal attack. It will *most likely* be not just poor, but structurally impoverished. There will be all kinds of risk factors apparent for violent and premature death of various sorts. And the dogs you will see will be strong, intimidating animals that are easy to get locally, cheap to buy, cheap to feed. Some number of them will be neglected physically, and some larger number will have had their training and socialization badly neglected.

A few of them will be chows/chow crosses (especially in colder places), a few will be the mongrel descendants of the once pyramid-scheme-fodder shar pei, a few will be German shepherd types (in the 70's that would have been most of them) -- and the overwhelming bulk of them will be pit bull types, or types that look like pit bulls crossed with other things, Labs or Rottweilers often enough.

Probably 80% of the "man's dogs" and "yard dogs" in any rough, impoverished urban neighborhood. And common enough in the countryside, too, though more poor rural dwellers keep hounds than you will find in the city.

The "pit bull" is the default dog in the places where premature death to causes that more affluent people hardly think of is tragically frequent.

[Selma]

Right on the money, as usual, Heather.

What do you think of Coren's new assertion in his "rebuttal" blog that "pit bulls" make up less than 1% of the dog population in Philadelphia? Don't bother answering, it's a semi-rhetorical question.